Monday, October 20, 2014
Relationships and Friendships
Personally, all I think about while discussing Aristotle's views on friendship is how he is mainly just describing relationships in my opinion. This had me thinking-is there really a difference between relationships and friendships? Because I have many relationships with people that I would categorize more as being casual and less habitual than those that I consider friendships. What I would define as having a true friendship is someone who I trust and spend a lot of time with and share the same values with. Aristotle thinks the three forms of friendship include all three: by utility, by pleasure, and be goodness. The friendship I described is most like the friendship by goodness that Aristotle describes. At the end of class, someone asked the question of whether the only friendships that fail are those of utility and pleasure. I think that most the time this is probably true but it certainly not mean that friendships by goodness cannot fail at all-they just usually fail and then later get repaired.
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I agree with Connor that Aristotle is just describing relationships when he talks about friendship of utility and pleasure. One good example I can think of that helps me to understand the three types of friendships he describes is when you first come to college your freshman year. When you initially meet your roommate for the first time you know little to knowing about them but you can say that you have a relationship with them since you are living together. At first I would view this relationship between roommates as friendship of utility and pleasure. You and your roommate mutually benefit from each other at first, maybe because neither of you know any other people, so you can eat meals together, and go out together. You are not truly good friends with this person yet, but it is beneficial for you to spend time with them. You cannot claim to be in a friendship of goodness so quickly with a person you just met and know little about, even if you are living together.
ReplyDeleteThen, as time passes and your relationship grows this is then where I think you can begin to make the distinction between being in a friendship of goodness, or just a relationship where you live with the other person. If while you spend time with your roommate you get to know them well, and enjoy being in their presence for other reasons besides your personal gain or pleasure, then your relationship of utility and pleasure may transform into a friendship of goodness. On the other hand if you realize that your roommate is someone you would not be hanging out with if he/she was not your roommate then this relationship never amount to anything more than you two simply living together. You still might be able to be in relationships of utility and pleasure with this roommate but you cannot say it is a true friendship. I think that friendships of goodness do not form overnight. They take time and they are ongoing processes. They have ups and downs but in time will prevail whereas friendships of utility and pleasure will not endure fights and can end abruptly.
I agree with Kristin. I believe that every friendship (or relationship) starts as a friendship of utility or pleasure. It seems impossible that from the second you meet someone, you view their well-being and happiness above your own. Although it is possible to get to that point and feel that strongly and your relationship with someone else, it takes time for the relationship to evolve. The more time you spend with someone, the more you are able to realize your similar (or dissimilar) interests and values which allows you to form a friendship of goodness, rather than just a friendship of utility or pleasure. Everyone is guilty to having both types of incomplete friendships because the friendships of goodness that we have now had to start somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. I do think there is a difference between relationships and friendships. It is easy to have a relationship with someone like your mailman, you see them pretty regularly, you politely say hello or wave, but he is not someone you would call if you needed something or if you wanted to hang out. In class you mentioned how it would be easier to understand Aristotle’s concept if the word relationship was used in place of the word friendship and to me that is what made it click. A friendship is something deeper. Like you said, a friend is someone with whom you have common values.
ReplyDeleteAs far as whether a friendship can fail, I think that all friendships have the capability of failing. We talked in class about how a friendship of goodness can fail if the values of a person changes or you discover that their values were different than what you thought you knew them to be. Just because something fails doesn’t mean it never existed.
I believe friendship and relationship are two different things. You form many relationships with people through common interests and activities and you end up having a friendship of utility without even realizing it. You have a study partner who helps you with a particular subject or a teammate that lends you a ride to practices or games. Then over time you start to form a friendship of pleasure. You start to hang out outside of school and work, grab a cup of coffee or go to the movies. You share similar beliefs and enjoy the same things. You get to know their life story and characteristics. And then sometimes you form a friendship of good where you admire and respect them beyond words. They usually become your best friend or significant other. You usually want to spend all your time with this person. There are usually only a few of people that get to hold this title in your life. And if you're lucky they will be life long friends.
ReplyDeleteI think since most agree that friendships are a special kind of relationship. It seems like there was however a bit of a split within the class today about whether or not time apart or time together affects the depth of a friendship, and the sustainability of it. If friendship is formed on activities and values that you share, is it possible that someone you just met could become a better friend in a shorter amount of time than it took for you to become best friends with someone else (given, in this case, you spend the same amount of time doing things and sharing ideas together). This would mean that personalities, or a kind of natural demeanor, certainly have a stronger play in the development of friendships than we might thing.
ReplyDeleteI would be inclined to say that yes, some people can become deep friends very very quickly while others take much more time. The friends that happen fast can also be even more sustainable than the ones that developed over a larger length of time. Personality is definitely a contributor in this equation.
How big of a contributor though? It's hard to say... I think shared values certainly play into the common personality aspect. Your values shape who you are as a person and reflect in your behavior and habits, as we said earlier in class. Personality may just be an extension of the values Aristotle is speaking about.
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ReplyDeleteI think that there is a big difference between friendships and relationships because a friendship is a type of relationship. Relationship to me is the broad term for people you come in contact with. An acquaintance is a type of relationship that is lesser than a friendship but more than a stranger. A parent-child relationship is a form of relationship, but it is not a friendship. And a romantic relationship is a relationship, but I would not consider it to be a friendship. The point is that friendship is a specific type of relationship. In my mind the term "friend" is reserved for those people that I actively make an effort to connect with and who do the same in return. There are also varying forms of friendship. I believe that each person sets the specific guidelines for what they would call a friend but our society has a general meaning that we live by. I also think that friendships of goodness are capable of failing. I believe that anything is capable of failing because people change and situations change. That complete friendship can change and become something much less than it was at one point. But I would assume that complete friendships have a greater chance of lasting than the lesser forms. I would also assume that they typically do last but they are able to fall apart.
ReplyDeleteI just think that Aristotle is no longer current. His ideas make up a nice goal, but I don’t think that his thoughts on achieving virtue at all times are possible. I think that friendship and happiness is simpler than Aristotle says. He says they are lifetime achievements, but I disagree. I have maintained friendships from a young age but I also have very strong new ones too. I have been happy in my life because of small occurrences. Whether or not Aristotle believes these instances are “true” happiness or true, deep and “good” friendships, I believe I am happy so I think that is enough. Why do we have to achieve true happiness and friendship? Can you still survive in a state of ignorance?
ReplyDeleteI think that friendships of goodness can fail and I think it is much more likely that friendships of goodness that fail, fail because the two people outgrow each other's personalities. I think that there is a difference between relationships and friendships, and that Aristotle uses the two terms interchangeably. I think that friendships of pleasure and goodness, for Aristotle, are what we would commonly call friendships, while friendships of utility are relationships. I think the difference between friendships of pleasure and friendships of utility and why one is a friendship and one is a relationship is because a friendship of pleasure is derived from enjoyment of one's company, while a friendship of utility is derived from one's usefulness for oneself.
ReplyDeleteAs Stephanie brought up, there were split opinions on whether the depth of a friendship is affected by distance. Personally, I think of distance as a test. Distance is really just a test of friendship. It is easy to see someone every day and to get to know them more. Having them within close proximity is convenient. However, as you get older you tend to move around and life can get a little less convenient. Your friends at Villanova live in the same area as you know, or live very close, but when you start working you most likely may not end up in the same place. One they may not be from the same state as you or two you got a job in a different city or state. It is easier, I think to form and maintain a relationship when you are near someone since you are living in real time. You can fix things quicker and easier. You could just meet up with them or head over to their dorm to work out any miscommunication. You cannot really do that all the time with distance unless you have the time or the money to do so. It can be harder to maintain and harder to have it feel like someone is always there for you when they are so far. I think it is only really true friendships that can withstand distance, the kind where you can just pick up where you left off and tell them everything.
ReplyDeletePeople come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. I think relationships and friendships are the same way. Friendships of goodness I think, as well, can fail. Nothing is permanent. As humans we are ever changing and thus our relationships as well. At one point you may think that your friendship with someone could be a lifetime, but it could change. That friendship could move into the season category. You cannot always accurately predict which category the friendship falls into until you hit the end. Also, as everyone else has been saying I agree that “friendships” start off as friendships of pleasure or utility before they can become friendships of goodness. As mentioned above they can move between categories. That is because friendships can be at different stages of growth. Finally, I think there are different kinds of friendships. From an early age we know this. We call some of friends just friends, others we call BF (best friends) and others we call BFF (best friends forever) or sometime even higher BFFL( best friends for life). You hear little girls using these terms all the time. So I think you can use the term friendship as an all-encompassing term, and we do use it as that, you just have to make sure you know what specific type of friendship someone is talking about (BF,BFF or BFFL).